Spellcasting QoL

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Joshsny
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Spellcasting QoL

Post by Joshsny » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:19 pm

First, thanks for updating this game! I played the mess out of it while deployed in a previous life, and it brings me joy and nostalgia to play it again.

Second, as I play almost exclusively pure magic in my runs, I have some spellcasting requests.
1. I remember there being some way to group a number of spells together so they're cast simultaneously. This helps immensely, as I like to run with loads of spells active, and refreshing them is painful. I believe Extend used to just extend all spells that are currently active.
2. Display all durations for spells in tool tips.
3. Display miscast chance in the character screen, and some way of knowing how much damage it can do.
4. Have miscast eat through armor before health (not sure if this is intended or not, but it's annoying to die with full armor)
5. On character creation, have a section somewhere that shows the max of each stat as traits/flaws are added

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Max
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Re: Spellcasting QoL

Post by Max » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:02 am

Hey Josh, Do you remember the way the nexis would cancel all your active spells each time you use it? 😁

All my spell casters fail to miscast damage. You need to have Magic Resistance.

Joshsny
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Re: Spellcasting QoL

Post by Joshsny » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:18 am

I definitely remember the active spell clearing effect of the nexus, and was pleasantly surprised to see that it was changed :shock:

The most I've personally seen miscast damage do is at least 25, as I had 25 hp at the time. If I knew what the damage range was, I could buffer against it and plan to lose X health. Granted, I had selected the magic weakness flaw and learned right then that it was technically the "magic" damage type.

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Max
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Re: Spellcasting QoL

Post by Max » Wed Apr 29, 2020 6:14 am

Even if you buffer against it, it will still get you.
I have not done the math but it feels like miscast damage benefits from your spell power,
so as you level up it gets worse (next time I'll actually look at the numbers, sorry).

If you try to buffer against it with hit points it gos like this...
From full health you take 1 hit from a miscast spell and survive and then...?
...use a healing spell? you could miscast again and die by healing.
...use a consumable?

Rinse and repeat and any player will run out of consumables
and one day have a double miscast and die to it.

Sorcery does not halp as 'spell cast chance' seems to be separate to 'spell miscast chance'.
Sorcery (spell cast chance) stopped spells failing but not miscasting.

The only thing I know that can help is Magic Resistance
(or ring master and rerolling until you start with a ring that has Magic Resistance 8-) ).


Healing magic is a real problem.
It's pointless at full health and dangerous at low life beacsue of miscast.
I really think that somehow miscast should be reworked.

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Grunz
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Re: Spellcasting QoL

Post by Grunz » Wed Apr 29, 2020 11:04 am

Being immune to miscasts for healing spells or even all non-hostile spells would be a nice boon to make white magic more attractive.

And yes, "extend" did extend the duration of all running spells. Together with spell weaving and stable magic trait, you can keep them running forever in oldlaby. Of course, you have to get your mana from somewhere else than the nexus: Dark Mana, Energy from Stones or potions (alchemy).

Joshsny
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Re: Spellcasting QoL

Post by Joshsny » Wed Apr 29, 2020 3:25 pm

Thanks for the replies guys, and I'm stubborn, so kept trying to get past the early game, rolling the dice against that 2.5% chance of death. I'm up to 120 power, and 73 health. I now keep Magic Ward up at all times to counteract my magic weakness flaw (Stabilize is fantastic), and am on the lookout for rings that help in that department. Sorcery supposedly reduces the miscast chance from 5% to 2.5%, which I definitely have. Finally, I keep chrono shield up too, because it's a 25% chance to revert miscast damage, and I've even had it save me from miscast damage death a few times on my previous runs.

I've now had a miscast do ~49 damage in one go, and that's when I had ~100 power or so, though that was before I was running Magic Ward. Do we know the calculations that lead into miscast damage? is it something like 25% of power max, and then multiplied by your magic resist?

zefz
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Re: Spellcasting QoL

Post by zefz » Wed May 06, 2020 8:12 pm

Hello! Sorry for the late reply, been quite busy lately.

So the chance to miscast a spell is 5% (2.5% with the Sorcery trait). Your assumption that the damage scales on Spell Power is correct. The maximum damage taken from miscasts is 3 + 1 per 5 points of spell power.

Perhaps it would make sense that you could somehow reduce the chance of miscast for spells that you have mastered (like increasing spell cast chance above 100% for a given spell).
1. I remember there being some way to group a number of spells together so they're cast simultaneously. This helps immensely, as I like to run with loads of spells active, and refreshing them is painful. I believe Extend used to just extend all spells that are currently active.
I can't remember anything like this in the old versions. Casting multiple spells would normally consume multiple turns no? (and some spells could be miscast or failed casting normally). Adding multiple actions bars and allowing you to put all buffing spells in a row (so you could just press 1,2,3,4, etc.) to cast spells could perhaps help.
2. Display all durations for spells in tool tips.
This is a good idea. Suprisingly a bit tricky to implement since many spells have different ways of calculating their duration (and many spells do not have a duration like Fireball). We would need to standarize spell durations and then we could add something like this so it could be calculated beforehand (assuming default spell power with no special cast success).
3. Display miscast chance in the character screen, and some way of knowing how much damage it can do.
This could be modeled as an attribute (like Spell Casting chance). We could add special artifacts or super rare items that could decrease (or increase!) the miscast chance. Special Success chance could similarily be modeled as an attribute.
4. Have miscast eat through armor before health (not sure if this is intended or not, but it's annoying to die with full armor)
Normally only Physical damage eats through armour before health. There is an Warlock (Prismatic Bulwark) spell that allows Armour to protect from elemental damage types as well.
5. On character creation, have a section somewhere that shows the max of each stat as traits/flaws are added
This is definitely possible, the challenge here is not enough room on this screen to add a lot of additional information :)

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Grunz
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Re: Spellcasting QoL

Post by Grunz » Wed May 06, 2020 9:11 pm

If you want it all really flexible, you would have to make the spells (and probably the skills too) all data driven via XML or config file style. Like what you did with the monsters back then.
That way, you and potential modders have it easier to tweak things.

Code: Select all

name="chaos"
school="high"
level=1
mana=2
target="self"
itemcost="none"
effects="chaos" 
Then, if you want even more work, make all spell effects be actually Lua scripts. 8-)

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Re: Spellcasting QoL

Post by zefz » Sun May 10, 2020 2:55 pm

Sorcery (spell cast chance) stopped spells failing but not miscasting
Sorcery does halve chance of botching a spell. Base chance is 5% and Sorcery reduces it to 2.5%

I saw the original Lost Labyrinth uses Luck to reduce the chance of botching a spell. I will add this into LabyDX as well!

I also changed so the amount of damage scales with Spell Circle (higher level spells dealing more damage, casting low level spells is low risk). Spell power now increases this damage as a linear percentage (i.e having 50 Spell Power means +50% botch damage). Botch damage is calculated by the following function:

Code: Select all

RANDOM((1+Circle/2) to (1+Circle)) + spellPower in %
Meaning if you have 75 Spell power and botch a Circle 6 spell, the damage range is 7-12. Before this (version 1.6.3 and before) it would be 8-18.

Any Circle 1 spell cast with 150 Spell power will now only deal 2-5 damage (instead of 15-30)

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Re: Spellcasting QoL

Post by zefz » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:52 pm

2. Display all durations for spells in tool tips.
This has been added to the next release.

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